Ep. 259 | Rachel Bicking: Customers' First Micro-Frustration Makes or Breaks the Next Purchase
Thu Dec 04 2025
Episode 259: How do you prevent first-trip hassles such as a room not being ready at check-in, Wi-Fi outages, or service delays from discouraging first-time customers from returning?
Today's guest, Rachel Bicking, EVP of Innovation at Kobie Marketing, says that after a slightly negative first trip, customers are 80% less likely to return. Kobie—a technology platform that builds and runs rewards and loyalty programs—is solving this. They use a "journey atlas" to read social signals, spot subtle first-trip frictions, and then trigger targeted offers or fixes. They model lift and rewards liability so that investment can follow behavior change. Journey maps freeze a tense customer moment. A live atlas shows where small failures block the next purchase and coordinates fixes across channels.
Inside the business, spending becomes about precision. Simulators forecast lift, break-even, and profit impact by segment and moment, so finance are able to see trade-offs before money moves. The payoff? Practical programs that grow trips, expand categories, and raise lifetime value.
Guest: Rachel Bicking, EVP of Innovation, Kobie Marketing
Host: Rob Markey, Partner, Bain & Company
Give Us Feedback. Help us improve the podcast here: https://bit.ly/CCPodcastFeedback
Time-Stamped Topics:
[00:03] First-trip friction that kills repeat purchases, with examples and fixes [00:10] Personalization that simplifies the customer experience [00:12] Emotional Loyalty Scoring, habit, status, and reciprocity [00:21] Coordinating recovery across store, app, and site for the same customer [00:23] Using precision to avoid incentivizing the wrong customer base [00:27] Designing redemptions to expand baskets, categories, and trip frequency [00:31] Accounting for redemption cost and liability without derailing good decisions [00:34] Using simulators to forecast lift and break-even before spending a dollar [00:36] The moment modeling convinces finance to reallocate the budget Time-Stamped Quotes:
00:05 — "What we're trying to do at scale is identify those moments that matter and those micro-moments that then lead to a negative or positive experience. Because we want to amplify the positives and we want to make sure that we intercept the negative ones." 00:07 — "I think there's been a broader inclination to say, 'Hey, if it's below a certain amount, people don't care.' And this is where personalization becomes really important. If I get delayed checking into my hotel room and I have to go to the next meeting and I don't have time to put my stuff down, ten minutes matters." 00:08 — "Data-wise, we're always trying to break down customers' interactions [and] rewards into a series of metadata, into a series of features, so that we can make them more explainable at scale." 00:13 — "If personalization is done well, the experience from a customer perspective should be very simple. It should be guided. It should be deliberate."
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Episode 259: How do you prevent first-trip hassles such as a room not being ready at check-in, Wi-Fi outages, or service delays from discouraging first-time customers from returning? Today's guest, Rachel Bicking, EVP of Innovation at Kobie Marketing, says that after a slightly negative first trip, customers are 80% less likely to return. Kobie—a technology platform that builds and runs rewards and loyalty programs—is solving this. They use a "journey atlas" to read social signals, spot subtle first-trip frictions, and then trigger targeted offers or fixes. They model lift and rewards liability so that investment can follow behavior change. Journey maps freeze a tense customer moment. A live atlas shows where small failures block the next purchase and coordinates fixes across channels. Inside the business, spending becomes about precision. Simulators forecast lift, break-even, and profit impact by segment and moment, so finance are able to see trade-offs before money moves. The payoff? Practical programs that grow trips, expand categories, and raise lifetime value. Guest: Rachel Bicking, EVP of Innovation, Kobie Marketing Host: Rob Markey, Partner, Bain & Company Give Us Feedback. Help us improve the podcast here: https://bit.ly/CCPodcastFeedback Time-Stamped Topics: [00:03] First-trip friction that kills repeat purchases, with examples and fixes [00:10] Personalization that simplifies the customer experience [00:12] Emotional Loyalty Scoring, habit, status, and reciprocity [00:21] Coordinating recovery across store, app, and site for the same customer [00:23] Using precision to avoid incentivizing the wrong customer base [00:27] Designing redemptions to expand baskets, categories, and trip frequency [00:31] Accounting for redemption cost and liability without derailing good decisions [00:34] Using simulators to forecast lift and break-even before spending a dollar [00:36] The moment modeling convinces finance to reallocate the budget Time-Stamped Quotes: 00:05 — "What we're trying to do at scale is identify those moments that matter and those micro-moments that then lead to a negative or positive experience. Because we want to amplify the positives and we want to make sure that we intercept the negative ones." 00:07 — "I think there's been a broader inclination to say, 'Hey, if it's below a certain amount, people don't care.' And this is where personalization becomes really important. If I get delayed checking into my hotel room and I have to go to the next meeting and I don't have time to put my stuff down, ten minutes matters." 00:08 — "Data-wise, we're always trying to break down customers' interactions [and] rewards into a series of metadata, into a series of features, so that we can make them more explainable at scale." 00:13 — "If personalization is done well, the experience from a customer perspective should be very simple. It should be guided. It should be deliberate."