If People Weren’t Paid, Would They Follow You? (A Leadership Wake-Up Call)
Wed Jan 28 2026
Episode Title: If People Weren’t Paid, Would They Follow You? (A Leadership Wake-Up Call)
What actually motivates people to follow a leader — beyond a paycheck?What happens when belief, trust, and clarity matter more than compensation?And how do leaders need to evolve as work, talent, and expectations continue to change?
In this episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown, Leilani sits down with Jocelyn Lincoln, a transformational marketing and talent leader, for a candid conversation about leadership, growth, and the human side of work. Jocelyn shares her career journey — from her first job in financial services to executive leadership roles across staffing and healthcare — and the lessons she’s learned along the way about people, purpose, and performance.
Drawing on her experience as a Fractional CMO and executive advisor, Jocelyn unpacks how the workforce has evolved, including the rise of flexible and contingent work, the impact of automation and AI, and the growing talent shortages reshaping industries like healthcare. She also reflects on her experience leading a political campaign, where motivating volunteers offered a powerful lesson in leadership without pay — and why belief may be one of the most underestimated leadership tools.
Together, Leilani and Jocelyn explore what it really takes to lead in today’s environment — and why growth, at every level, ultimately comes down to people.
Whether you’re a leader, manager, or professional navigating change — or questioning whether your leadership would hold without a paycheck — this episode offers perspective, clarity, and a much-needed leadership reset.
What it means to lead when money isn’t the motivator
Why belief, trust, and clarity are essential leadership tools
How flexible and contingent work has reshaped careers
The impact of AI and automation on today’s workforce
What healthcare talent shortages reveal about leadership gaps
Why defining your personal value proposition matters
Lessons from leading volunteer workforces and political campaigns
Jocelyn Lincoln
Jocelyn Lincoln is a Fractional CMO with Chief Outsiders and a transformational marketing and talent leader with more than two decades of experience across staffing, healthcare, and growth strategy. She works with CEOs and leadership teams to drive growth through clarity, alignment, and execution, helping organizations rethink how they attract, retain, and lead talent in a rapidly changing workforce.
Leilani BrownWebsite → https://giantstepsllc.comInstagram → @giantstepsllc
Jocelyn LincolnLinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynlincoln/ Website / Chief Outsiders → https://www.chiefoutsiders.com/
🎁 Free guide: Your Next Giant Reset™ — a step-by-step resource for navigating loss, layoffs, and planning your comeback.👉 Download it here: https://resetguide.giantstepsllc.com/#page=1
📚 More free resources & writing:Read the Giant Steps blog and download additional resources on Substack →👉 https://giantstepsllc.substack.com/
#GiantSteps #Leadership #FutureOfWork #WorkforceStrategy #TalentLeadership #CareerGrowth #AI #CareerTransitions
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Episode Title: If People Weren’t Paid, Would They Follow You? (A Leadership Wake-Up Call) What actually motivates people to follow a leader — beyond a paycheck?What happens when belief, trust, and clarity matter more than compensation?And how do leaders need to evolve as work, talent, and expectations continue to change? In this episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown, Leilani sits down with Jocelyn Lincoln, a transformational marketing and talent leader, for a candid conversation about leadership, growth, and the human side of work. Jocelyn shares her career journey — from her first job in financial services to executive leadership roles across staffing and healthcare — and the lessons she’s learned along the way about people, purpose, and performance. Drawing on her experience as a Fractional CMO and executive advisor, Jocelyn unpacks how the workforce has evolved, including the rise of flexible and contingent work, the impact of automation and AI, and the growing talent shortages reshaping industries like healthcare. She also reflects on her experience leading a political campaign, where motivating volunteers offered a powerful lesson in leadership without pay — and why belief may be one of the most underestimated leadership tools. Together, Leilani and Jocelyn explore what it really takes to lead in today’s environment — and why growth, at every level, ultimately comes down to people. Whether you’re a leader, manager, or professional navigating change — or questioning whether your leadership would hold without a paycheck — this episode offers perspective, clarity, and a much-needed leadership reset. What it means to lead when money isn’t the motivator Why belief, trust, and clarity are essential leadership tools How flexible and contingent work has reshaped careers The impact of AI and automation on today’s workforce What healthcare talent shortages reveal about leadership gaps Why defining your personal value proposition matters Lessons from leading volunteer workforces and political campaigns Jocelyn Lincoln Jocelyn Lincoln is a Fractional CMO with Chief Outsiders and a transformational marketing and talent leader with more than two decades of experience across staffing, healthcare, and growth strategy. She works with CEOs and leadership teams to drive growth through clarity, alignment, and execution, helping organizations rethink how they attract, retain, and lead talent in a rapidly changing workforce. Leilani BrownWebsite → https://giantstepsllc.comInstagram → @giantstepsllc Jocelyn LincolnLinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynlincoln/ Website / Chief Outsiders → https://www.chiefoutsiders.com/ 🎁 Free guide: Your Next Giant Reset™ — a step-by-step resource for navigating loss, layoffs, and planning your comeback.👉 Download it here: https://resetguide.giantstepsllc.com/#page=1 📚 More free resources & writing:Read the Giant Steps blog and download additional resources on Substack →👉 https://giantstepsllc.substack.com/ #GiantSteps #Leadership #FutureOfWork #WorkforceStrategy #TalentLeadership #CareerGrowth #AI #CareerTransitions