39: Lawrence Lek—World Entry Points with Peter Bauman
Fri Jan 16 2026
In this special podcast episode, host Peter Bauman (Le Random’s editor in chief) speaks with artist and filmmaker Lawrence Lek about NOX Pavilion at The Bass Museum of Art in Miami, an immersive installation centered on a self-driving car in a “therapy” program for malfunctioning AIs.
They unpack Lek’s long-running NOX universe: a speculative rehab center where care can slide into control, and where machine interiority is treated as a technical defect. The conversation moves from the politics of nonhuman rights and legal gray zones (“it depends”) to Lek’s recurring fascination with autonomous creative agency and what it would mean for an AI to make art as a choice that conflicts with its intended function.
In the second half, Lek and Bauman widen the lens to world-building: why a world isn’t one thing but multiple entry points, how ideas like Umwelt and worldview shape what any intelligence can perceive, and why Lek increasingly thinks of his simulations as “superficial models”—interfaces to reality rather than claims to foundational truth.
Monday’s Le Random Editorial: "Embodying AI at NeurIPS 2025: Creative AI Track" by Luba Elliott
and "Ian Cheng on Composing with Systems" by Peter Bauman
Chapters: 📖
00:00:03 — Intro + Monday editorial highlights (NeurIPS / Luba Elliott)
07:06:06 — From ecology to AI: nonhuman agency, rights, and “mature” discourse
13:39:01 — Repairing AI interiority: Enigma’s “Revery” and malfunction-as-psychology
19:58:05 — Legal personhood + Empty Rider: blame, responsibility, and the “it depends” machine
27:35:09 — The crash test dummy: guide character, onboarding, and corporate voice
32:11:06 — The empathy transition: why people resist empathizing with machines (for now)
38:25:00 — Narratives vs “living code”: simulation stories and instantiated lifeforms
44:21:06 — What counts as a world? Umwelt, worldview, and multiple entry points
53:23:08 — Where immersive worlds may head: metaverse hangover, AI’s role, and formats shifting
01:00:50 — Outro + goodbye
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In this special podcast episode, host Peter Bauman (Le Random’s editor in chief) speaks with artist and filmmaker Lawrence Lek about NOX Pavilion at The Bass Museum of Art in Miami, an immersive installation centered on a self-driving car in a “therapy” program for malfunctioning AIs. They unpack Lek’s long-running NOX universe: a speculative rehab center where care can slide into control, and where machine interiority is treated as a technical defect. The conversation moves from the politics of nonhuman rights and legal gray zones (“it depends”) to Lek’s recurring fascination with autonomous creative agency and what it would mean for an AI to make art as a choice that conflicts with its intended function. In the second half, Lek and Bauman widen the lens to world-building: why a world isn’t one thing but multiple entry points, how ideas like Umwelt and worldview shape what any intelligence can perceive, and why Lek increasingly thinks of his simulations as “superficial models”—interfaces to reality rather than claims to foundational truth. Monday’s Le Random Editorial: "Embodying AI at NeurIPS 2025: Creative AI Track" by Luba Elliott and "Ian Cheng on Composing with Systems" by Peter Bauman Chapters: 📖 00:00:03 — Intro + Monday editorial highlights (NeurIPS / Luba Elliott) 07:06:06 — From ecology to AI: nonhuman agency, rights, and “mature” discourse 13:39:01 — Repairing AI interiority: Enigma’s “Revery” and malfunction-as-psychology 19:58:05 — Legal personhood + Empty Rider: blame, responsibility, and the “it depends” machine 27:35:09 — The crash test dummy: guide character, onboarding, and corporate voice 32:11:06 — The empathy transition: why people resist empathizing with machines (for now) 38:25:00 — Narratives vs “living code”: simulation stories and instantiated lifeforms 44:21:06 — What counts as a world? Umwelt, worldview, and multiple entry points 53:23:08 — Where immersive worlds may head: metaverse hangover, AI’s role, and formats shifting 01:00:50 — Outro + goodbye