Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning

Andrea Samadi revisits a conversation with neuroscientist Dr. Baland Jalal about how curiosity launched his career and how transitional sleep states fuel creativity. The episode explores sleep paralysis research and the hypnagogic window—the moments before sleep and after waking when the brain makes unexpected connections. This week, Episode 384—based on our review of Episode 224, recorded in June 2022—we’ll explore: ✔ Why learning, creativity, and curiosity depend on a regulated nervous system ✔ How sleep—especially REM—creates the conditions for insight and problem-solving ✔ What happens in the brain when focus shuts down and imagination turns on ✔ Why safety, rhythm, and rest are prerequisites for learning—not rewards after it ✔ How understanding sleep changes the way we approach performance, education, and growth Listeners learn practical tips for capturing insights at the edge of sleep, setting intentions before bed, and protecting morning silence to preserve creative flashes. The episode emphasizes that learning and creativity emerge best when the nervous system feels safe and regulated. This episode launches Season 15’s Phase 1 focus on regulation and safety, framing sleep, rhythm, and emotional regulation as the essential foundation for motivation, learning, and sustained performance. Welcome back to Season 15 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast. I’m Andrea Samadi, and here we bridge the science behind social and emotional learning, emotional intelligence, and practical neuroscience—so you can create measurable improvements in well-being, achievement, productivity, and results. When we launched this podcast seven years ago, it was driven by a question I had never been taught to ask— not in school, not in business, and not in life: If results matter—and they matter now more than ever—how exactly are we using our brain to make these results happen? Most of us were taught what to do. Very few of us were taught how to think under pressure, how to regulate emotion, how to sustain motivation, or even how to produce consistent results without burning out. That question led me into a deep exploration of the mind–brain–results connection—and how neuroscience applies to everyday decisions, conversations, and performance. That’s why this podcast exists. Each week, we bring you leading experts to break down complex science and translate it into practical strategies you can apply immediately. If you’ve been with us through Season 14, you may have felt something shift. That season wasn’t about collecting ideas. It was about integrating these ideas into our daily life. Across conversations on neuroscience, social and emotional learning, sleep, stress, exercise, nutrition, and mindset frameworks—from voices like Bob Proctor, José Silva, Dr. Church, Dr. John Medina, and others—one thing became clear: These aren’t separate tools. They’re parts of one operating system. When the brain, body, and emotions are aligned, performance stops feeling forced—and starts to feel sustainable. Season 14 showed us what alignment looks like in real life. And now we move into Season 15 that is about understanding how that alignment is built—so we can build it ourselves, using predictable, science-backed principles. Because alignment doesn’t happen all at once. It happens by using a sequence. By repeating this sequence over and over again, until magically (or predictably) we notice our results have changed. So this season, we’re revisiting past conversations—not to repeat them—but to understand how they fit together, so we can replicate them ourselves. Because the brain doesn’t develop skills in isolation. Learning doesn’t happen in isolation. And neither does performance, resilience, or well-being. The brain operates as a set of interconnected systems. When one system is out of balance, everything else is affected. So Season 15 we’ve organized as a review roadmap, where each episode explores one foundational brain system—and each phase builds on the one before it. Season 15 Roadmap: Phase 1 — Regulation & Safety Phase 2 — Neurochemistry & Motivation Phase 3 — Movement, Learning & Cognition Phase 4 — Perception, Emotion & Social Intelligence Phase 5 — Integration, Insight & Meaning Today we begin with Phase One: Regulation and Safety. Because before learning can happen, before curiosity can emerge, before motivation or growth is possible— the brain must feel safe. That’s where we are today as we embark on this journey together. I encourage us all to take notes, and apply what each phase is encouraging us to do. This is not just for you, the listener, I’m going right back myself, and revisiting each interview with a new lens. PHASE 1: REGULATION & SAFETY Staples: Sleep + Stress Regulation Core Question: Is the nervous system safe enough to learn? Anchor Episodes Episode 384 — Baland Jalal How learning begins: curiosity, sleep, imagination, creativity Bruce Perry “What happened to you?” — trauma, rhythm, relational safety Sui Wong Autonomic balance, lifestyle medicine, brain resilience Rohan Dixit HRV, real-time self-regulation, nervous system literacy EPISODE 384 — REVIEW OF EP 224 (JUNE 2022) Revisiting Our Interview with Baland Jalal Today’s Episode 384 we go back to Episode 224[i], recorded in June 2022, featuring Danish neuroscientist Dr. Baland Jalal—a researcher, author, and one of the world’s leading experts on sleep paralysis. Dr. Jalal is a neuroscientist affiliated with Harvard University’s Department of Psychology and was previously a Visiting Researcher at Cambridge University Medical School, where he earned his PhD. His work has been featured in The New York Times, Washington Post, BBC, NBC News, The Guardian, Forbes, Reuters, PBS (NOVA), and many others. He also writes for TIME Magazine, Scientific American, Big Think, and The Boston Globe. Since our original interview, I’ve watched Dr. Jalal’s influence expand globally. Most recently, he appeared on Jordan B. Peterson’s podcast[ii], discussing Dreams, Nightmares, and Neuroscience, and on Lewis Howes’ School of Greatness[iii], where he explored Dreams, Lucid Dreaming, and the Neuroscience of Consciousness—an episode that truly stretched Lewis’s thinking. What stood out to me most—then and now—was Dr. Jalal’s transparency about learning. At the beginning of his interview with Lewis Howes, Dr. Jalal shared how a single experience—his desire to understand his own episodes of sleep paralysis more than 20 years ago—sparked a lifelong curiosity. That curiosity led him to his local library in Copenhagen and ultimately transformed his entire career path in ways he could never have imagined as a young man spending time on the streets. That honesty resonated deeply with me. Before Google, I remember sitting in a local library in Arizona around that same time, trying to understand the mysteries of the world—from the Great Pyramid of Giza to Stonehenge—reading everything I could get my hands on. Like Dr. Jalal, I was curious about many things I didn’t understand, but my path didn’t start with neuroscience or learning science, which came later for me. We all begin somewhere. Let’s go to our first clip from Dr. Baland Jalal, where he shares how his love of learning truly began. 🎥 VIDEO CLIP 1 — Where His Love of Learning Began Before watching this clip, it’s important to listen with perspective. This is the same person who would later be described by the BBC and The Telegraph as “one of the world’s leading experts on sleep paralysis.” But that expertise didn’t begin with certainty—it began with curiosity. Dr. Jalal said: “I always hated books. I thought books were so boring. I’d rather hang out in the streets. Then I started to read and found how psychology and the brain were kind of interesting—why we do certain behaviors, why we think a certain way, and how the brain works. I started reading more and more and hanging out at the library instead of in the streets. I was kind of hiding it—I was supposed to be the cool kid. How do you walk with swag and have books? It didn’t fit, but I made it work. I realized that when you actually like the material and what you are doing, you can become really good at it.”   🔑 KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS CLIP 1. Curiosity Precedes Confidence Expertise rarely begins with certainty—it begins with a question. Dr. Jalal didn’t set out to become a neuroscientist; he set out to understand his own experiences with sleep paralysis. This mirrors what many of our experts have shared on this podcast. Doug Fisher, for example, once told me he enrolled in medical school classes simply to better understand how the brain learns. Curiosity comes first. As Dr. Jalal explains, the more you learn, the clearer your thinking becomes—and clarity builds confidence naturally. 2. Identity Shifts Are Often Private at First Real growth often begins quietly, long before others notice. Before the transformation becomes visible, it happens internally—sometimes even in secrecy. Dr. Jalal hid the books he was reading, unsure how his growing interest would be received. I remember doing the exact same thing when I first began studying the brain and learning. I questioned myself constantly: Who was I to explain a topic I hadn’t formally studied in university? Years later, I’ve read more books on neuroscience than I did during my entire university career. Growth doesn’t ask for permission—it asks for commitment. 3. Intrinsic Motivation Changes the Brain When learning is driven by genuine interest rather than obligation, engagement deepens, persistence increases, and mastery accelerates. Neuroscience consistently shows that motivation strengthens attention, memory, and long-term retention. I was first handed Brain