E141: The Bronze Age Collapse and History's Selective Memory
Thu May 15 2025
Today on Upstream, we’re sharing Erik Torenberg conversation with Samo Burja where they discuss the Bronze Age collapse, technological advancements in ancient civilizations, and the nuanced history of the Roman Empire, along with a detailed analysis of contemporary geopolitical dynamics, particularly focusing on the Russian-Ukrainian conflict and its implications for global power structures.
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📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess
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RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
🎙️Live Players
Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=01ed191c74264f55
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LivePlayerswithSamoBurja
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SPONSORS:
☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine
💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.
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LINKS:
Bismarck Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/
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X / TWITTER:
@samoburja
@eriktorenberg
@turpentinemedia
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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:
The Bronze Age collapse demonstrates that advanced civilizations can experience technological backsliding, countering the idea that knowledge only accumulates.
Despite technological advancement in some areas like Greek fire in the Byzantine Empire, the Bronze Age collapse shows entire civilizations and technologies can be lost.
The Bronze Age collapse (around 1000 BC) is documented in both written sources (Hittite tablets) and archaeological evidence showing destruction layers across multiple regions.
The Hittite Empire, once a major power rivaling Egypt, was completely forgotten until its rediscovery in the 19th century.
During this collapse, entire civilizations vanished, metalworking was lost in some places, and Greece lost literacy for about 400 years.
Even decentralized systems can be fragile, as demonstrated by how trade route disruptions led to bronze scarcity and eventual societal collapse.
From 1991 to 2014, the world lived under US hegemony before Russia began expanding again with the annexation of Crimea.
Samo predicts giant nations like the US and China will have strong interests but won't necessarily impose their systems on smaller countries.
Europe's decline could be reversed if it adopted a more federal and flexible system similar to the Swiss Confederacy.
Eastern European countries like Estonia, Poland, and Hungary present interesting possibilities for governance experiments.
Regarding Russia-Ukraine, Samo predicts Russia will ultimately gain territory while Ukraine loses it, with Western support for Ukraine likely to weaken over time.
On historical narratives, Samo suggests prehistory was much more violent than often portrayed by anthropologists in recent decades.
Samo challenges academic narratives about colonization, arguing Spanish rule was an improvement over Aztec human sacrifice practices.
North America likely had multiple rises and falls of civilization that remain undiscovered partly due to political motivations in archaeology.
More
Today on Upstream, we’re sharing Erik Torenberg conversation with Samo Burja where they discuss the Bronze Age collapse, technological advancements in ancient civilizations, and the nuanced history of the Roman Empire, along with a detailed analysis of contemporary geopolitical dynamics, particularly focusing on the Russian-Ukrainian conflict and its implications for global power structures. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess — RECOMMENDED PODCAST: 🎙️Live Players Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=01ed191c74264f55 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LivePlayerswithSamoBurja — SPONSORS: ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine 💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — LINKS: Bismarck Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/ — X / TWITTER: @samoburja @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia — HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE: The Bronze Age collapse demonstrates that advanced civilizations can experience technological backsliding, countering the idea that knowledge only accumulates. Despite technological advancement in some areas like Greek fire in the Byzantine Empire, the Bronze Age collapse shows entire civilizations and technologies can be lost. The Bronze Age collapse (around 1000 BC) is documented in both written sources (Hittite tablets) and archaeological evidence showing destruction layers across multiple regions. The Hittite Empire, once a major power rivaling Egypt, was completely forgotten until its rediscovery in the 19th century. During this collapse, entire civilizations vanished, metalworking was lost in some places, and Greece lost literacy for about 400 years. Even decentralized systems can be fragile, as demonstrated by how trade route disruptions led to bronze scarcity and eventual societal collapse. From 1991 to 2014, the world lived under US hegemony before Russia began expanding again with the annexation of Crimea. Samo predicts giant nations like the US and China will have strong interests but won't necessarily impose their systems on smaller countries. Europe's decline could be reversed if it adopted a more federal and flexible system similar to the Swiss Confederacy. Eastern European countries like Estonia, Poland, and Hungary present interesting possibilities for governance experiments. Regarding Russia-Ukraine, Samo predicts Russia will ultimately gain territory while Ukraine loses it, with Western support for Ukraine likely to weaken over time. On historical narratives, Samo suggests prehistory was much more violent than often portrayed by anthropologists in recent decades. Samo challenges academic narratives about colonization, arguing Spanish rule was an improvement over Aztec human sacrifice practices. North America likely had multiple rises and falls of civilization that remain undiscovered partly due to political motivations in archaeology.