#63 - No validation without invalidation with The Product Bus
Wed Dec 17 2025
On this episode Cam & Scotty dive deep into product-led thinking, early-stage validation, founder-led sales, and the uncomfortable truths every startup needs to face before scaling.
Scotty Allen, founder of The Product Bus, fresh from Perth where he ran workshops, coached founders, and delivered the brutally honest Startup Killers event with the team at Everest Engineering.
Ammo sat in on their sessions, played The Product Bus card game, and experienced firsthand why Scotty’s philosophy resonates so deeply with founders: fall in love with the problem, not the solution. The conversation didn’t stop when Scotty left WA, we had to keep it going.
Problem:
You’ve built something real, maybe a prototype with early traction but before you invest in development, you need proof that it isn’t just desirable but commercially viable.
Solution:
The Product Bus runs programs, pit-stops and pre-mvp projects to help startups build stronger evidence for their idea. With product-led thinking and design they help teams build something customers actually want.
One big piece of advice:
Take a hard look at how you spend your time.
If talking to potential customers isn’t at least 75% of youreffort—more than building or networking—you’re not focusing on the rightthings.
Bullets:
(00:00) - Welcome & intro
(01:17) - Scotty’s background and journey into startups
(03:11) - How The Product Bus started
(05:36) - Don’t fall in love with your product—fall in love with the problem
(06:58) - What real product-led thinking looks like in practice
(10:43) - Finding the “hair-on-fire” problem
(12:57) - Why having an idea isn’t enough
(17:18) - Asking the tough questions
(18:57) - The pros and cons of a welcoming startup ecosystem
(21:21) - Validation with early customers
(27:33) - The startup crimes Scotty sees most often
(30:58) - Validation with invalidation
(34:10) - Understanding your customer’s buying process
(37:38) - Signals of validation and scale
(42:54) - Owning sales as a founder
(46:17) - Founder-led sales and life-changing outcomes
(49:08) - One big piece of advice – spend time with customers
(50:26) - How Scotty’s education background keeps him grounded
(51:47) - Show & Tell – Gamma
(55:01) - What Scotty would call this episode
(55:46) - Where to find The Product Bus & The BootstrapPodcast
(57:55) - Wrap up
Show & tell:
The Product Bus – https://theproductbus.comThe Bootstrap Podcast – https://thebootstrap.tech/Gamma – https://gamma.appY Combinator – https://www.ycombinator.comClaude (Anthropic) – https://www.anthropic.com/claude
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On this episode Cam & Scotty dive deep into product-led thinking, early-stage validation, founder-led sales, and the uncomfortable truths every startup needs to face before scaling. Scotty Allen, founder of The Product Bus, fresh from Perth where he ran workshops, coached founders, and delivered the brutally honest Startup Killers event with the team at Everest Engineering. Ammo sat in on their sessions, played The Product Bus card game, and experienced firsthand why Scotty’s philosophy resonates so deeply with founders: fall in love with the problem, not the solution. The conversation didn’t stop when Scotty left WA, we had to keep it going. Problem: You’ve built something real, maybe a prototype with early traction but before you invest in development, you need proof that it isn’t just desirable but commercially viable. Solution: The Product Bus runs programs, pit-stops and pre-mvp projects to help startups build stronger evidence for their idea. With product-led thinking and design they help teams build something customers actually want. One big piece of advice: Take a hard look at how you spend your time. If talking to potential customers isn’t at least 75% of youreffort—more than building or networking—you’re not focusing on the rightthings. Bullets: (00:00) - Welcome & intro (01:17) - Scotty’s background and journey into startups (03:11) - How The Product Bus started (05:36) - Don’t fall in love with your product—fall in love with the problem (06:58) - What real product-led thinking looks like in practice (10:43) - Finding the “hair-on-fire” problem (12:57) - Why having an idea isn’t enough (17:18) - Asking the tough questions (18:57) - The pros and cons of a welcoming startup ecosystem (21:21) - Validation with early customers (27:33) - The startup crimes Scotty sees most often (30:58) - Validation with invalidation (34:10) - Understanding your customer’s buying process (37:38) - Signals of validation and scale (42:54) - Owning sales as a founder (46:17) - Founder-led sales and life-changing outcomes (49:08) - One big piece of advice – spend time with customers (50:26) - How Scotty’s education background keeps him grounded (51:47) - Show & Tell – Gamma (55:01) - What Scotty would call this episode (55:46) - Where to find The Product Bus & The BootstrapPodcast (57:55) - Wrap up Show & tell: The Product Bus – https://theproductbus.comThe Bootstrap Podcast – https://thebootstrap.tech/Gamma – https://gamma.appY Combinator – https://www.ycombinator.comClaude (Anthropic) – https://www.anthropic.com/claude Get founder stories, startup insights, and marketing ideas straight to your inbox: https://www.ammo.marketing/subscribe