The Huddle Leadership Podcast with Kate Russell

In this episode of The Huddle Leadership Podcast, host Kate Russell sits down with Dr Simon Moss, psychologist and founder of the Radical Humility initiative, for a revelatory conversation about humility, narcissism, and the systemic changes needed to transform workplace culture. With 30 years of experience in psychology as both an academic and consultant, Simon brings evidence-based insights and practical strategies to one of the most critical—yet often overlooked—challenges facing modern organisations: how to foster humility and reduce narcissism to prevent conflict, enhance productivity, and create psychologically safe workplaces. The discussion explores the profound impact humble leadership can have on everything from workplace bullying to domestic violence, revealing how organisations can unlock extraordinary potential by prioritising people's development over immediate status. From understanding the roots of narcissistic behaviour to implementing systemic solutions that prevent conflict before it escalates, Simon demonstrates how humility isn't just a nice-to-have quality—it's the foundation for sustainable organisational success and societal wellbeing. Key Takeaways Humility solves multiple problems simultaneously: Most workplace issues—bullying, exaggerated claims, resistance to feedback—are virtually absent in people who are genuinely humble and motivated to learn from others Perceived drawbacks of humility are misconceptions: Humble people are actually more credible, not less, because they're less defensive, their arguments consider multiple perspectives, and they're aware of both their limitations and strengths Productivity can increase by 400-500%: Research suggests that in the right circumstances—when people feel valued and can work without constant disruption—they can be four to five times more productive than on difficult days Narcissism manifests differently across personalities: While grandiose narcissism (bragging, showing off) is easily recognised, vulnerable narcissism—characterised by extreme sensitivity to criticism and constant victimhood—is far more insidious and often goes unlabelled Time pressure erodes humility: When people feel rushed and overwhelmed, their motivation to learn from others drops, making them less humble and more focused on immediate needs rather than long-term development Narcissists excel in job interviews: Narcissistic individuals are more likely to exaggerate their qualities and, surprisingly, more likely to be hired because interviewers often fail to see through the performance Humility is more malleable than other qualities: Unlike many personality traits, humility can be systematically developed through specific exercises and environmental changes over several months Prevention trumps intervention: The ideal approach is fostering humility throughout organisations before conflicts arise, rather than attempting to address narcissistic behaviour during crises when people are defensive. Featured Discussion Simon's journey into the study of humility began 30 years ago with a simple mission: to collect every scientific discovery—intuitive or counterintuitive—about how to help people improve their productivity and wellbeing. Starting with fascinating findings like how people on your left shoulder are easier to read emotionally (because you process them with your right hemisphere), Simon accumulated thousands of research insights that ultimately led him to recognise humility as perhaps the most powerful yet underutilised quality in organisational life. The conversation takes a particularly compelling turn when Simon explains the two main premises of "radical humility." First, that so many workplace and societal problems dissipate when people are genuinely humble—passionate about learning from others and experiences rather than being narcissistic or arrogant. Second, and perhaps more revolutionary, is Simon's conviction that humility can be fostered systemically across organisations, communities, and families to address multiple problems simultaneously, from domestic violence to workplace malfeasance. Kate and Simon explore the fascinating paradox of narcissism: individuals who desperately seek status and importance through immediate gratification rather than developing genuine skills and relationships over time. Simon reveals how narcissism manifests differently depending on personality—extroverted narcissists show off and brag, whilst those high in neuroticism display vulnerable narcissism, becoming hypersensitive to criticism and adopting a victim mentality. This vulnerable narcissism, Simon notes, is particularly insidious because it's harder to identify and address. The discussion illuminates a critical challenge in conflict resolution: people are least humble precisely when humility would be most beneficial—when they're stressed, feeling defensive, or engaged in conflict. This creates a catch-22 where the moments demanding humility are the very circumstances that suppress it. Simon's solution is preventative: build humility into organisational culture before crises emerge, creating resilient people who perceive challenges as opportunities to grow rather than threats to defend against. Innovation Spotlight: Radical Humility as Systemic Change Perhaps the most ambitious aspect of Simon's work is the vision for fostering humility systemically across society. He proposes concrete examples like dating websites that incentivise humility through points systems, schools that embed humility training during critical developmental periods, and organisations that make humility a core competency rather than an afterthought. The genius of this systemic approach lies in recognising that individual interventions, whilst valuable, cannot address the scale of problems created by widespread narcissism. By building humility into the structures and incentives of institutions—workplaces, schools, families, even dating platforms—behaviour change becomes embedded in the environment rather than dependent on individual willpower alone. Simon's work addresses a critical gap in how society currently operates. Whilst people claim to value humility and research shows they trust humble politicians, the systems actually reward narcissistic behaviour: job interviews favour confident exaggeration, social media rewards self-promotion, and uncertain futures make people prioritise immediate status over long-term development. Radical humility seeks to reverse these perverse incentives. The research foundation is robust: humble people are more credible, more resilient, more trustworthy, better liked, and have more stable perceptions of truth because their emotions don't swing as wildly. They view challenges as opportunities rather than threats. They're open to feedback, making them aware of both limitations and genuine strengths. And crucially, humility appears to be more developable than many other important qualities, making it an ideal target for intervention. Quotable Moments "Most of the problems you experience at work, such as bullying, someone exaggerating their skills, someone resistant to feedback, and all of those issues are not really present in people who are humble, in people who really want to learn from others." "People who are genuinely humble, in that they're really motivated to learn from others, so they're not just acquiescing, it's more they want to learn from others, they tend to be more credible. It's partly because they're not as defensive. It's partly because most of their arguments have considered lots of different perspectives, so they're a lot more nuanced." "There are some studies that imply that, and it makes sense to me that in the right circumstances, people can just be about four to five times more productive than on a really bad day. And that may sound like a lot. I mean, that's a huge number if you think about increasing productivity by 500%." "Fundamentally, narcissism really is this pursuit for immediate status and importance and power. So the person is much more obsessed with sort of enhancing their status, their rank, how they perceive as soon as possible, rather than trying to develop the skills and the qualities and the achievements and the networks to develop that status over time." "We believe it is possible in society to foster this humility systemically in organisations, communities, families and so forth, to address many of these problems to some degree, at least simultaneously. I think that humility is probably more malleable than many other important qualities." "In a job interview, if you've got someone who's quite narcissistic, they're more likely to exaggerate their qualities and attributes in that job interview. And they're actually more likely to be chosen. You'd think that interviewers and hiring managers would see through that, but they often don't." "We do know that when people experience a lot of time pressure, so when they really feel rushed, when they feel overwhelmed with duties, which is pretty much all of us, not much of the time, we're not as motivated to learn from other people, our humility drops." "That vulnerable narcissism, the people that are incredibly sensitive to criticism and perceive themselves as victims and obsessed with their own needs is probably a lot more insidious in organisations and not labelled as much." "When people are more humble, they perceive challenges and difficulties as really as opportunities to grow. So they tend to be more resilient. And because of that resilience, their emotions are not too intense. And so their decisions are more likely to take into account a much broader range of context. So the truth is more likely to be a bit more stable over time." "In an ideal world, most organisations would try to prevent those conflicts by fostering that humility throughout the organisation first at a time before conflicts arise to prevent those sorts of disputes ever from escal