The Bestest and Worstest of Times for ESG Comms
Wed Feb 04 2026
This week, Jennifer and Kati sit down with Joel Makower, chairman and
co-founder of Trellis Group, for a candid conversation about the current state
of sustainability communications after 35+ years in the field.
Joel shares why we're living with higher highs and lower lows than ever
before. We explore the trust crisis affecting not just sustainability, but
business, media, science and government — and what it means for communicators
trying to make the case for climate action.
Joel also offers his advice for integrating head and heart through
storytelling, how to reframe sustainability as "better" rather than
sacrifice, and why ESG became a political landmine while the s-word endures.
Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com!
Learn more about Engaging ESG at bit.ly/EngagingESGpod.
Show Links
Learn more about Joel Makower
Visit Trellis
Watch: Joel Makower: Poetry in Motion
Listen: Smartless
Listen: So Many Steves: Afternoons with Steve
Martin
Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and
Elvin Vangard.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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This week, Jennifer and Kati sit down with Joel Makower, chairman and co-founder of Trellis Group, for a candid conversation about the current state of sustainability communications after 35+ years in the field. Joel shares why we're living with higher highs and lower lows than ever before. We explore the trust crisis affecting not just sustainability, but business, media, science and government — and what it means for communicators trying to make the case for climate action. Joel also offers his advice for integrating head and heart through storytelling, how to reframe sustainability as "better" rather than sacrifice, and why ESG became a political landmine while the s-word endures. Have a question for us? Email us today at engagingesg@gmail.com! Learn more about Engaging ESG at bit.ly/EngagingESGpod. Show Links Learn more about Joel Makower Visit Trellis Watch: Joel Makower: Poetry in Motion Listen: Smartless Listen: So Many Steves: Afternoons with Steve Martin Our theme music is "Lost in Translation" by Wendy Marcini and Elvin Vangard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices