People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast

Summary In this episode, Andy talks with Steve Jaffe, author of The Layoff Journey: From Dismissal to Discovery. Steve has been laid off four times over the course of his career, and those experiences shaped a thoughtful, practical framework for navigating the emotional and professional aftermath of job loss. Andy and Steve explore why layoffs feel so personal even when we are told they are not, how identity often gets tangled up with job titles, and why the emotional response to a layoff closely mirrors the stages of grief. Steve explains why those stages are not linear, what denial, pain, and negotiation really look like in practice, and why trying to rush straight to acceptance can backfire. You will also hear practical advice for leaders who must conduct layoffs, as well as guidance for professionals who worry they might be laid off in the future. From preserving dignity in difficult conversations to preparing financially, emotionally, and professionally before uncertainty hits, this discussion offers insight for both sides of the table. If you are navigating uncertainty, supporting others through change, or simply want to be better prepared for whatever comes next, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "I wanted to give people a roadmap to process their layoff and the grief of their layoff in months rather than years." "One of the things that makes losing a job difficult is we tie our identity up in what we do." "And then in that period, before you've landed your next job, you're in this messy middle of Who am I?" "Define yourself not by what you do, but by who you are and what you bring to the table." "I've seen people be named Employee of the Year in January, and by June they're getting laid off." "Layoffs don't measure your worth. They measure a company's priorities." "The stages of grief are not linear. You can feel all of them in one day." "Your job title is not who you are." "Acceptance can become a way to skip discomfort instead of dealing with loss." "If you don't process the grief, it shows up later as baggage." "Dignity matters in the first minutes of a layoff conversation." "You want to build your network before you need it." "The person you were before a layoff will not be the same person after." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:45 Start of Interview 02:00 From First Layoff to Fourth: Taking It Personally 02:50 How the Layoff Process Has Changed Over Time 06:52 The Messy Middle Between Job Loss and What's Next 10:40 Why the Stages of Grief Apply to Layoffs 14:07 What Denial Looked Like in Steve's Experience 17:19 Balancing Emotional Honesty and Professional Reputation 22:08 The Quote That Opens the Book 23:00 Can You Jump to Acceptance Too Quickly? 24:58 When Past Layoffs Create Baggage at the Next Job 26:42 Advice for Leaders Who Have to Do Layoffs 28:55 Handling Performance-Based Separations with Integrity 30:40 How to Prepare Now If You Worry About Being Laid Off 32:46 End of Interview 33:33 Andy Comments After the Interview 37:37 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Steve and his work at TheSteveJaffe.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 163. A short three-minute video Andy put together about what to do before losing your job. Episode 310 with Jeff Gothelf, about how to let your next job find you. Episode 230 with Scott Belsky. Not specifically about layoffs, but full of insights on careers, growth, and the hiring process. Level Up Your AI Skills In the outtakes, Andy and Steve talk about how AI is changing the workplace. If you want to be better prepared for an AI-infused future, check out our AI Made Simple course. Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks! Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader. That's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than five minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Business Acumen Topics: Leadership, Layoffs, Career Transitions, Organizational Change, Emotional Intelligence, Resilience, Identity at Work, Grief, Workforce Planning, Change Management, Professional Development The following music was used for this episode: Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license